Welcome to Indulgence Gospel After Dark!
We are Virginia Sole-Smith and Corinne Fay, and it's time for your November Extra Butter episode.

Today we're talking about our problematic faves! These are shows, musicians, influencers and other pockets of culture that we want to enjoy without thinking much about them, even if there's discourse. We'll get into:

• Our favorite Bad Skinny Girl TV shows.

• The straight man who has Corinne's heart.

• Is Virginia a pick-me girl now?

• And so many more!!!

To hear the whole thing, read the full transcript, and join us in the comments, you do need to be an Extra Butter subscriber.

If you haven't joined us yet — we've extended your Burnt Toast gift access deadline! Check your email for "claim your free month by 11/20!" And do it TODAY!

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Episode 219 Transcript

Corinne

Today, we're going to do a fun little episode where we talk about problematic faves...although it's a little more nuanced than that. This is kind of inspired by a TikTok by Caro Claire Burke. She also has a Substack, and a podcast which we love. 

Caro says:

The inherent flaw of a platform like TikTok, for a cultural critic like me, but also just for anyone, is that you look on someone's feed and you only see the shit they care about. And you get the impression that this person is constantly, chronically online, and that they care about everything. And that makes me feel tired with other people, and it makes me feel really tired with myself.

So I thought I would cleanse my feet a little bit by sharing five things I couldn't be bothered to care about, five things where I constantly go, it's not that deep—even though it probably is that deep—as a means of just creating a small sanctuary for myself in a world that is rapidly falling to shit. 

And her list includes the Skims Merkin, discourse about whether protesting is cringe, her own marriage, and Hailey Bieber.

Virginia

Interesting choice for her to put her own marriage on the list. I honestly respect it. 

Corinne

It's like, if it's working, don't look at it too hard, you know?

Virginia

I love this whole concept. I think Caro does great work. But it was a really hard assignment for me! Because we are so chronically online and we care and we dissect everything. I think it's a good exercise though. Not because we don't want to hold problematic people accountable, but because we do get to be people, and sometimes just exist and just let something exist.

Okay, so you're like, cringe-ing, a little every time I say problematic fave. Is that just because it's a very overused term, or because you think that's not quite what we're doing?

Corinne

Good question. I feel like the things on my list aren't necessarily problematic? Or they're not problematic yet, but I don't want to look too deeply into this, you know? I want to let it be something I enjoy, and not have to wrestle with it. 

I think there's also a way in which we try so hard to do things right with consumerism, like, boycott the right brands and shop for things in the correct way, or hold people accountable. And yes, we should do that. We should try to make the world a better place. And, it's exhausting, and we can't realistically do everything right all the time.

Virginia

I think that's really fair. Maybe the other reason these aren't quite problematic faves is we are not naming people or institutions...Oh wait, I might be? But we're trying not to name people or institutions who have a known track record of already being wildly offensive in some way. But we see the potential for them to go in that direction.

Now that I said that, there are a couple on my list that are already maybe problematic. So we'll get there. 

But it's different from being like, "this person is a well established problem, and I just find them delightful anyway." It's more like, oh, this could be a thing, but let's not overthink it right now. 

I feel like this is a little like brain break we all need.

Corinne

Okay, the first one that came to mind for me was TV related. I feel like there's a certain genre of show that I like to watch that is very fluffy, very detached from reality, or at least my reality, and I just like to watch it. So I just can't really get that much into the discourse. And I'm talking about shows like Emily in Paris, And Just Like That, the Sex in the City reboot. I just want to zone out and watch them.

Virginia

I mean, we did do a Live all about how bad the final season of And Just Like That, was.

Corinne

It's true.

Virginia

So we did contribute to the discourse. And I totally agree with you. We were like, well we're watching it anyway!

Corinne

And now that it has been canceled, I do feel a real loss.

Virginia

Turns out I do want to see women in their 50s wearing absolutely absurd outfits and spending far too much money on cocktails. Where else are we going to find that in our lives? 

My first one is also TV-related and very adjacent. I put down Nobody Wants This, the Kristen Bell, Adam Brody romcom, but this is a whole genre, I think. And Just Like That, Emily in Paris, Nobody Wants This. There are so many! I call them Bad Skinny Girl TV.

Corinne

Oh, wow. I mean, Emily in Paris is absolutely Bad Skinny Girl TV.

Virginia

The thing I have to be mindful of with these shows is, if I watch too many, too constantly, it can trigger some body stuff. That's my one legit flag on these shows. If you look at too many really skinny, pretty Hollywood actresses, sometimes it starts to get into your brain a little. So, you know, be mindful about that.

But otherwise, it's like Nobody Wants This...the second season was so dumb. It was so dumb, it was just a retread. 

Corinne

I didn't even know there was a second season. 

Virginia

My 12 year old and I just binged it. Kristen Bell plays a just sort of unlikable main character. But because it's Kristen Bell, you're along for the ride regardless. She's being immature and making strange choices and wearing so many odd shirts. I don't really understand who chose the shirts for that show. They always have weird holes in them, or, like, barely cover her torso in some complicated way? And yet I was like, yeah, seems great

Corinne

Now that we're saying this. I'm also thinking abotu how I love to watch all the detective, cop, FBI, CIA, MI5 shows. Also extremely problematic. Propaganda for evil forces.

Virginia

ACAB, except for TV cops?

Corinne

I know in my heart these are forces for evil. And, like, I love to watch them on TV. 

Virginia

We will solve this murder.

Corinne

I'm rooting for the detective.

Virginia

These shows I'm talking about also often do often have some thinly veiled, or not-so-veiled fatphobia. And I am just, for the most part, able to just sail on through it. I will also put something like Gilmore Girls in this category. There is a valuable cultural discourse around Gilmore Girls. There's a lot about it that doesn't age well. And it will still be a comfort watch for me forever.

All right, what's next for you?

Corinne

All right. Well, this came up when we were discussing doing this episode. I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna have to really think about what mine are..." And you were like, "Yours is The Gap." 

And to be clear: The Gap does not make my size. I cannot wear clothes from The Gap. And yet, I'm constantly looking at their website. I like their clothes, and I feel like I've recommended them to you, Virginia, because I'm like, "well if you can wear them, you might as well." Like, I'm not interested in being mad at The Gap for not making my size.

Virginia

You’re like "They get a pass, their advertising is so charming."

Corinne

I think with The Gap specifically, I have some deep-seated childhood stuff, because The Gap factory outlet was the closest real clothing store to where I grew up. It was just where I just wanted to go. 

Virginia

It